That would be *too* easy...

Far be it from to defend the drivel aired on the networks (and most other stations), but I'm going to let you in on a little secret. It's called acting.

... and when Hollywood portrays Conservatives, it is very bad acting, indeed.

I have met two pastors who have had extended conversations with Hollywood crews filming a movie or TV show in their neighborhoods.

In BOTH cases, the directors, actors, producers freely admitted that the pastor was not just the first pastor they met, but that they had never had a conversation with ANY Bible-believing Christians.

Stop and think about that. Hollywood does not hesitate to portray Christians, typically in a negative or unrealistic manner, yet nobody writing these scripts even KNOWS one.

Yet, they often will do plenty of due diligence to research other aspects of their productions.

As a result, the Hollywood "bubble" (echo chamber) continues to ingest stereotypes of their own making (out of ignorance) on what Christians must be like - without ever actually meeting and talking with one.

Rush Limbaugh has mentioned this as well, when it comes to his own life. Liberals who actually MEET him (playing golf, at the cigar clubs) find out that he is a nice guy and fun to talk to. And that all their preconceptions were incorrect.

I think Heaton can act as good as Flockhart - but she will not be getting much work anymore by the leftists in Hollywood.

That's what happens when you begin your award acceptance speech with first thanking your Mom for "letting her come out" (of the womb)

Right on D.J.!

I'd nominate Kathy Ireland as a real conservative to play that role. I'd probably actually watch the show.

So I can expect everyone here to get upset that Ron Silver played a liberal on the West Wing, when in fact he's a conservative, that Daniel Day Lewis is not, in fact, a Mohican, that Sean Connery has played Americans, Irish, English, and Spanish characters even though he's Scottish. Charlton Heston has played a Jew and a Mexican despite being neither. There's plenty more. ALF was actually a puppet, not an alien. How could he accurately portray an alien? In upcoming movies, Will Farrell tries to pass himself off as a NASCAR driver; he's not! Tobey Maquire has never been bitten by radioactive spiders. Guess what? Jim Caviezel, the guy who played Jesus in The Passion, isn't even a Jew! He's Catholic!

Liberal actors playing conservatives rarely ever get it right.
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Mantis, note the substance of the post (and the comments that followed). I repeat it above for your edification.

You typically cite examples of fine actors who also heavily research their roles. The issue is not being an actor per se, it is about "getting it right".

By the way, Silver is a hardcore liberal - and still is. He just doesn't like the idea of Islamic nutcases blowing him up for not wanting to become an Islamic nutcase - and voted and supported the one candidate who was serious about taking the fight to them. Just like so many other lifelong voting Democrats that your party is losing votes with since 9/11/01.

Well then this post has nothing to do with politics and is more about bad acting, right? Doesn't it belong over in WizbangPop! rather than here?

Of course not, because it has everything to do with politics. See the update: why don't they cast conservatives in conservative roles? My answer: acting. It's absurd to think that actors should only play roles that mirror themselves.

As for Ron Silver, I don't know how "hardcore liberal" he is. I'm not familiar with his politics outside of foreign policy and Israel, and those are pretty conservative. In any case, from reading his Wikipedia entry, I see that his character on the West Wing switched and became the campaign manager for the Republican candidate (sorry, I've only ever seen a couple of episodes). If you are right and he's a "hardcore liberal", are you upset that he played a conservative campaign manager?

Whatever, it's pointless to debate with someone who believes that no one in Hollywood knows any Christians. Oh, wait, you know two pastors who say so. Then it must be true. By the way, what were those two Hollywood movies the cast and crew of which had never met a Christian?

mantis,

Actually, I guess it depends on how you define "bad acting"

There is bad acting, as in, he just can't act.

And there is "getting the part right" - where one is acting a specific part and does a fair and proper portrayal of that part. The latter was under discussion here, and given the "part" was political in nature - it seems like an appropriate entry for this website to me.

Thank you for your admission that you know nothing about Silver's politics except for what you heard post 9/11 concerning Islamic terrorism (MY EXACT POINT BY THE WAY). Maybe you should educate yourself sometime before speaking with authority on issues you are ignorant about. He was quite the activist during the Clinton years - if you are old enough to remember them.

And we will agree that it is pointless to debate with you. However, if you would like to list a few characters in movies or TV that are shown as Christian and NOT in a negative manner, I would be more than happy to hear you out.

Because if Hollywood does know all those Christians, it sure seems funny they then deliberately choose to misportray them every chance they get.

By the way - for a clear example of my point from a political POV- take Oliver Stone's movie 'Nixon' with the President played by Anthony Hopkins.

Hopkins is a great actor - playing a part. But the part he plays is written for him and he is under the influence of a director as well - and it is THERE that one can then question the choices made.

Can you have a ridiculously bad movie, that has great acting. Absolutely.

Mantis,

Think of it this way. Choosing Flockheart to play a conservative would be like choose Jack Nicholson to play Farrah Faucet in a biographical movie about her. It just won't work.

But I guess one way to guage who's right here will be just how long the show stays on the air.

Thank you for your admission that you know nothing about Silver's politics except for what you heard post 9/11 concerning Islamic terrorism (MY EXACT POINT BY THE WAY).

Actually, he opposed the Oslo agreement in 2000, so his politics regarding the ME pre-date 9/11, but whatever.

Maybe you should educate yourself sometime before speaking with authority on issues you are ignorant about. He was quite the activist during the Clinton years - if you are old enough to remember them.

You're right, I should have read Silver's biography before I mentioned him once in a comment on a blog (such authority!). I am quite old enough to remember the '90s, thank you, it's just that I didn't spend much time paying attention to celebrities' political activism. Excuse me for that.

However, if you would like to list a few characters in movies or TV that are shown as Christian and NOT in a negative manner, I would be more than happy to hear you out.

Well, first of all, I'm sorry that the Jews and the Gays run Hollywood and they're keeping all of the good Christian scripts from being made. I would suggest making your own movie. As far as Christian but not negative, I would guess that Christian characters dominate Hollywood movies that are full of American white people. That their religion is not featured is to be expected, as most Christians in this country don't talk about their religion all day (some do, obviously, but who the hell wants to see a movie about them?), and it isn't relevant to the plot. In the American movies I've watched over the past thirty years or so I've seen lots of characters entering Christian churches, lighting candles in prayer, talking to priests and reverends, etc. As far as movies where the characters' Christianity is featured, I know that A Walk to Remember is one, and Chronicles of Narnia is pretty obviously Christian if allegorically so. The Apostle is very interesting as well, but you probably wouldn't count that because the character wasn't a saint. Also recently: Northfork, The Sweet Hereafter, Dead Man Walking, Luther, The Third Miracle. I could go on but it wouldn't matter.

Remember, your original contention was not that there aren't enough Christian characters, but that no one in Hollywood knows any Christians. Ridiculous.

mantis,

I thought The Apostle was a great movie. I saw Duvall interviewed where he said he did a lot of reasearch for that movie and got to know many Pentecostal ministers in doing so. That is sort of my point, and why it was a good movie.

And I will retract my comment that NOBODY writing the scripts in Hollywood knows Christians. I am sure there are a couple.

I didn't become a Christian until my mid 20s (which is bordering on old today in Hollywood when it comes to scriptwriting as you probably know if you followed a couple of the age-related resume scandals of Hollywood writers in recent years)

And before I became a Christian, I honestly can say I did not have any Christian friends. And I was quite social, but of course my hangouts were not the hangouts that serious Christians would hang out in - nor was I interested in hanging out with them.

I don't expect (or care) that Hollywood may not know a lot of Christians. I object to the portrayals. By the way, do you know who made Luther? Since you cite it as one of your "Hollywood" examples. How about Narnia?

I agree that Hollywood understands that a lot of money can be made (since The Passion woke them up) by appealing to a Christian audience. By making a whole movie in that regard.

I dislike the potshots. Think about the warden's character in Shawshank. How about Keifer Sutherland in "A Few Good Men". DeNiro in Cape Fear.

As to why Christians are not more active in Hollywood - maybe this article will explain part of it.

http://www.starwire.com/CC/article/0,,PTID1000%7CCHID74%7CCIID260654,00.html

I didn't really come here to defend Hollywood, I just think the idea that an actor should hold the same beliefs as the character he/she is playing is ridiculous. I agree that there are a lot of negatively portrayals of Christians in Hollywood pictures. I don't doubt that some devout Christians have had a hard time getting work in Hollywood. Though as you note, Hollywood has come to realize there is a market for religious movies, and for many in that business markets are the most important thing.

However you should also consider the kind of treatment Hollywood and California get from Christian pundits and letter-writers. Why should they try to accomodate people that hate them so virulently? They get blamed for natural disasters, are told they're going to hell for embracing homosexuals, etc, etc. Most people working in movies today are pretty liberal, especially on social issues, and their politics clash with socially conservative Christians. That's unfortunate, but true. What I submit is that we live in a time where making your own movie is so much less expensive than it ever was. With digital video one can make their own film and market it at festivals, trying to find distribution. I imagine there are even some Christian film festivals out there, and if there aren't, someone should start one. If people want to make Christian-themed films, they don't need Hollywood to do it. Isn't the free market great?

Frankly, I find it objectionable that Flockhart was chosen not because of her personal politics, but because she is a flake. Anyone who knows anything of her past roles could not think that she is capable of playing an intelligent, quick-witted and deep thinker. Why they couldn't choose an older wiser woman (no matter her politics) like FRances McDormand or that great woman who played the mom in the new Cheaper by the Dozen movies? She's hilarious in a very intelligent kind of way. Most women are not going to be impressed with Ally McBeal presumably sitting side by side with someone like Laura Ingraham - witty, super-smart and gorgeous in a grown-up woman kind of way. Who the heck are they marketing this dreck for anyway? Not pushing 40 moms like me.

Now that's a good objection to this casting, Robin. I personally can't stand Flockhart and would not believe her playing any intelligent character, conservative or not.

Why should they try to accomodate people that hate them so virulently?
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If you read the Dean Jones article (which I hope you did) - I think you will see that certainly in that one case, the hate was flowing in just one direction. And it far outnumbered the peaceful one.

Yes, Hollywood and Christian Biblical values are often polar opposites.

And certainly Hollywood people are welcome to engage in the debate of those ideals in the public square. And they can make movies that glorify sex, drugs, violence and the like if they so choose. It is a free nation. I will choose not to spend money to see them.

However, to deliberately misportray the character of Christians in such a repeated and consistent manner - as a substitute to engagement - is not defensible. And I see that you state so in your opening sentence. No other group, NONE, is treated in such a manner. In fact, they ALTER the scripts of movies so as not to risk offending Muslims. Let's see Scorsese make 'The Last Tempation of Mohammed"

I know a lot of Christians, and very few of them "hate Hollywood" - they despise most of the product that Hollywood spews out, and choose to speak with their wallets often by not supporting it - but most of us (certainly myself) would be quite willing to sit down and discuss our faith (and the issues of the day) with anyone from Hollywood who was interested in truly finding out what being a Christian is all about.

As an aside, Susan Sarandon and Silver know each other well as liberal activists, and I saw Silver asked once how she responded to him when she found out about his changing views.

Her comment to Silver (per Silver) was simply "Oh Ron, you are smarter than that"

To such people, there is no sense in trying to debate. We've all seen her walk off the set when asked a couple tough questions in an interview. She thinks she is beyond questioning, and debate would be futile.

Ron Silver must be stupid to believe what he believes..no other explanation is possible apparently.

Well, I certainly agree that Susan Sarandon is an idiot not worth debating.

I still get confused by this:

most of us (certainly myself) would be quite willing to sit down and discuss our faith (and the issues of the day) with anyone from Hollywood who was interested in truly finding out what being a Christian is all about.

The fact is that most people who work in Hollywood are not from Hollywood. They go there to work in the movie business, but they come from all over the place. Considering that in this country about 75% of people self-identify as Christian, I find it very hard to believe that very many people in Hollywood don't know "what being a Christian is all about." It's not like we're talking about Zoroastrians here.

mantis, I repeat my own testimony which I think is repeated all over. We live in a post-Christian nation, in terms of the public influence. I'm old enough to remember singing Christmas songs in school before they were outlawed. But most people today have no reason to have been influenced by Christians. I knew nobody.

And Hollywood is one of the few businesses where success (especially initially) can be thwarted due to blacklisting. Again, Dean Jones is a good example, but Ben Stein has written some interesting stuff about being a political conservative in Hollywood and what that means when it comes to getting work (and he is of course not a Christian).

Also, Hollywood may draw people from all parts of the country, but there are certain jobs that certain folks gravitate towards - I know a couple devout Christian individuals trying to "make it" and they do not complain about it but simply note how rare it is to come across someone who not only is a fellow-Christian, but finding someone who does not vocally DESPISE Christians. And these are the folks they have to impress if they want work.

Thus, they feel like they have to keep their faith secret, like a Christian living in a Muslim nation - if they want work. Because if word gets out (even if they never try to witness to someone) that alone can keep them from getting a job.

No Jesus-freaks allowed, has become what "No Jews" and "No Negroes" once were (at least in this circle of employment.)

This is a pretty interesting commentary on the whole Christian/non Christian debate in this country. I grew up in an Ivy League collegetown. Needless to say, I did not cross paths with many devout Christians. So I went to college in South Carolina where everyone goes to church and Christians are a dime a dozen. It really was an eye-opening experience for me. I found that I really like the sense of community among Christians, the kindness and the ability to find fun that didn't involve insane drinking parties. That kind of religion did not speak to me beyond that at the time, but I developed a deep respect for those of faith. I'm not so sure that Hollywood types remember their roots - they are too concerned with surface issues.

I fear that Hollywood forgets just who resides in a huge portion of this country. They make movies for themselves that do not do very well. Then a sleeper like "Napolean Dynamite" made by Mormons on a shoestring is a success and Hollywood moguls ponder the reasons why. No sex scenes, no violence, no liberal talking points.... how can this be?

I think where Hollywood fails for many of us is that they don't treat the audience with respect or intelligence. This casting is a prime example. If they are going for a thoughtful middle-America audience, they shouldn't be casting a skinny dimwit like Flockhart, but a woman that audiences can believe would sit in the chair behind the mic. The same goes for the disasterous "Commander in Chief." If I were in charge of drumming up advertisers for this Flockhart timeslot, who would I be going to?

I happened to like "West Wing" for many years because the dialogue was truly funny and they did capitalize on office politics in arguably one of the most important office buildings in the world. The real-world pettiness of who drank the last of the coffee and the annoying banging of a tennis ball on a shared office wall was cleverly captured for those of us who have been there. The acting was superb and, now that I think about it, why didn't they cast Alison Janney? She would have been perfect - the right age, terrific timing, great facial expressions.

Janine Turner and Heather Locklear are BOTH conservatives AND excellent actresses.

HERE's an amusing web page for you to check out.

And, FYI, when Angelina Jolie showed up for a meeting with the Baldwins to discuss the production of the ATLAS SHRUGGED trilogy, she had in hand a copy of the "Celebrity Rand fan" issue of The New Individualist.

While I don't doubt there are some in Hollywood that will let politics involve casting, I think you are overstating it a good deal, Steve. First of all, I advise you to do a little reading on Hollywood Blacklisting during the 50s. If you look at Jones' filmography it is clear that he is not blacklisted, and further that there is no blacklist at all (which he states in the story you linked). Blacklisted actors and directors could not work at all, for anyone; many of them left for Europe so they could continue to make films. Jones has clearly worked a good deal since being born again, especially with Disney.

I don't defend people in Hollywood for being prejudiced against Christians, but I don't believe it is as bad as you make it out to be. Of course I don't work in Hollywood, so I could be wrong. However it reminds me very much of how conservatives talk about the oppression of conservatives at universities. I work at a university that they would no doubt paint as liberal (it's in Chicago), and I know many conservative professors, and in fact the woman who works at the desk next to mine listens to O'Reilly and Limbaugh on the radio all day. It annoys me, not because of her politics but because I'm trying to work. She is not discriminated against, or made to feel like she shouldn't speak her mind, or oppressed in any way. Yet I constantly hear form the Horowitz devotees that our universities are filled with liberals and conservatives are shunned and punished for their views. Maybe somewhere, but not that I've seen.

Is there a Hollywood Blacklist? No.

Is there a pervasive intolerance and bigotry directed toward Christians? Yes. And it's by people who believe they are serving civil liberty by taking away ours.
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Yes, blacklisted is the wrong term for me to use (due to its historical significance) - so I defer to Jones (above).

And yes, he has worked, but make sure you remember he did not become a Christian until the 70s, well after he was already an established star. And he has been denied a lot of work as well since (as he notes) - how much more the no-name trying to just break into the business.

I work "with" Hollywood, but not "in" Hollywood - having bought an insurance business located right on Sunset, and having grown up 5 minutes from the strip. I am no expert - but I know a little about what I speak.

On the other hand, I would have no way of analyzing your comment about universities, since I do not work among that culture, and when I went to one, I was not a Christian at the time.

I have only two points to make: Christians, especially the type that are vocal, judgmental, and have what I would call an "old testament" feel to their religious worldview, are clearly a group worth analyzing and challenging, both for their influence on public debate and their frequent hypocrisy. Of course most interesting movies about Christians explore this side of things, because on average Christianity gets a free pass as the religion of choice for most Americans. I would argue that being a strong Christian, however you feel that, is not something that turns people off as they meet you, but when it crosses the line into witnessing, etc. it becomes an uncomfortable subject for many people.

The thing that I think Christians need to re-establish, and the GOP as well, is making their spokespeople and their public face one of honesty, goodness, charity, thoughtfulness, etc. When pat Robertson, Jerry Falwell, and James Dobson are the voice of your party most people see anger, judgment, and not charity, community, hope, and the love of Christ. Similarly, if GOP leaders were half as honest, thoughtful, and traditionally conservative as most GOP voters, we would have better government.

If Christians were as concerned with Christ's message as they were with building multi-million dollar mega-churches and waving the flag and voting GOP (as if the right wing has a monopoly on Christian ethics) and hoping for the death of Supreme Court justices and democratically elected leaders, the fear of talking to one might cease.

I am always hopeful that anti-Christian sentiment is actually just a part of anti-religious sentiment, and we can see the end of tribal superstitious nonsense and mythology and the beginning of a real debate of what is good based on reason and facts and not invisible men.

Kimyl's posts always give me more confidence about future elections - when a self-described atheist lectures about teaching Christ's "true message", while at the same time insulting millions by referring to tribal superstitions, nonsense and invisible men, I am comforted in the knowledge that such views are in the extreme minority of this country, yet are leading the debate among the top Democrat leaders (ie Howard Dean)

Atheist---I don't believe God exists.

Christ---a philosopher whose moral system (exemplified by the Golden Rule) i support and follow, without all the dogma and fanfare

tribal, superstitious nonsense---organized religion, especially when they drop basic tenets of their faith (see also: The Golden Rule) in some internicene competition for who has the right God.

I was raised Christian, but I would have been a good person with or without a belief in Christ. I think that an ex-pat can discuss their beliefs about what America is all about just as well as someone who still lives there---objectivity and distance might be an asset.

Howard Dean does little debate, or public speaking, he works for the DNC now and holds no public office. He is also not an atheist. He is a Christian who does not attend church regularly, like a majority of Americans who do not attend church regularly and a majority who are Christian.

He is out of the mainstream how?